Ashdin Doctor is a Habit Coach and a professional speaker. His idea about changing habits is simple: make the change ‘stupidly small’ and gradually the bigger change will take effect. In this podcast, Ashdin sat down with Shabbir Ubai and Murtaza Sadriwala of the Dawoodi Bohra community to discuss a range of topics from mobile-phone addiction in children, the GenZ & fun house rules to make a positive influence on toddlers in the home environment.
Here are excerpts from the podcast. Some parts may have been edited for brevity.
On how he became a ‘habit coach’ - an uncommon name for a professional.
It's actually something that I had to create because like you said it doesn't exist so very often people say, Ashdin, then what is this habit coach thing? We’ve heard of fitness coaches, life coaches, what is a habit coach? and this industry was born out of something that I went through in life. I was extremely unfit. Very overstressed, like how we normally think about life when everything's going well, job's going well, everything's going fine, but we don't care about our body, our mind. My body was revolting and one fine day I collapsed on the floor at the age of 30-31 and that's when the ‘aha’ moment happened for me saying that my life cannot continue in the way that it's going on right now. That something has to change and I realized that it's mainly the habits in my life that are creating this and I tried changing the normal way how normal people try to change. (i used) motivation - I'm going to try and do something with brute force to try and change something - and I realized that that wasn't working for me.
I had to go to the small parts, the smallest actions that I could possibly do to start making those changes and when my friends started seeing this, they started asking me, how did you do this? so I said that I did this little habit, then I did this little habit and they would all look at me and say ‘I don't think I have your motivation and self-discipline and that is where the coaching idea came from. Saying that most people fail because they rely on self-discipline. So even what we're going to talk about today, we think that we need self-discipline to overcome but we don't. We require something else. So, the whole idea is how do we use habits to change any aspect of our life because ultimately our entire life is nothing but the little actions that we do every day. Those actions become daily actions, weekly actions, monthly actions, yearly actions and life actions, so the whole thing is how do we start with the small action and take it to the end.
On how habits are developed
What we don't realize is that most of our habits are hereditary, they are unconscious and they come from our parents. Our parents are eating in a particular way, we eat in a particular way, our parents sleep at a particular time, we sleep at a particular time, their habits become our habits and we don't realize it.
So in fact, my first TedX talk was on this saying that don't blame your genes, blame your habits because we normally blame our genes as for things that we know are hereditary but actually our habits are hereditary, so if we understand how to make it into a habit and make that unconscious habit conscious, then we can change it but not all habits are unconscious.
So going to the gym is not an unconscious habit because when you're at the gym you can't unconsciously be exercising. You need to very consciously be exercising so that's how you start looking at it.
So in fact, I tell most people make a list of all the habits that you realize you are doing and your parents are doing or you are doing and your friends are doing and then you start seeing the correlation—ah okay if I change this, maybe some aspect of my life will change and we can actually then start making those changes.
On his suggestions for parents based on his travels and experiences from across the world
Two to three things come to mind immediately. The first is that this is a universal problem the world over, so wherever I've gone and spoken about, one question at least comes up on what do I do about mobile phones? They disguise it as ‘how do I focus’ and then I am like, ‘you mean mobile phone?’ (they say) Yes, I mean mobile phone. So what's happening is that mobile phones have taken over the way we think.
I was in Tokyo recently and I was on the subway and when you're on the subway in Tokyo, the best thing you can do is put your phone in your pocket and just look at the number of people on the phone. Everyone's on their phone and I would see what people are doing on their phones. The wide variety are playing games, doing something or the other but it is just constantly there.
When I do sessions, I do one-on-one coaching with CEOs of companies. They come and tell me, “Ashdin, I don't know what to do. My productivity has gone completely zero. I'm so much on the phone that my business is suffering now. Please help me with this,” and at the same time, the same breath, they're talking about the children, “Arey bhai, I can't get him to get off his phone,” I was like - have you gotten off your phone that you're telling him to get off his phone?
So you're seeing this as a universal thing. The other day I was at a school giving a talk. Children were talking and they were telling me that they go to sleep at 2 or 3 in the night and I was like what are you doing?
“We are on our phones.” I am like but don't your parents tell you to sleep, “yeah but then they go away, I open my phone and I start,” and they are sleeping so late.
So you can start seeing the damage that this is causing and it's very easy to blame ourselves for this. It’s very easy to say, it's my fault but the key thing to realize is that there are companies that are spending billions of dollars trying to make you addicted to this. Right. So, what is our brain going to do? it doesn’t have a choice. It’s obviously going to get me addicted. So, we have to do everything in our power to try and minimise this kind of addiction and I think this is a big thing, it's something that I suffer from as well so it's something that is a continuous learning.
On how information-overload is affecting humankind
It’s impossible and what's interesting is that every single thing on your phone is an advertisement. Every single thing on your phone is someone trying to sell you something. We don't realize this. When you watch a YouTube video, somewhere there's an advertisement in it.
I come from a family business or market research. In market research, you're constantly looking at ads.
When I started, the only ads that you could see were hoardings and TVs. We would have laughed at someone who said that you will be shown ads from your pocket and on something you're addicted to - Impossible - but that's what's happening to us now. We are constantly consuming content which are ads and spending money buying etc.
On the four big issues with the mobile phone
I'm going to mix a little bit between children and adults because I think adults are also big children in some way.
There are four big issues with the mobile phone:
- The first one is physical issues. I'm seeing so much physical damage taking place in the human body because of the phone in children as well as in adults. The entire Carpal Tunnel is taking place, the thumb is becoming an issue, people are hunching over, people are stopping to breathe. So, there is a big aspect of phone usage that is damaging the body. People are sitting down constantly. Nobody's moving around so that is one big aspect.
- The second one is what it’s doing mentally. Most of the apps on your phone are designed to secrete a neurotransmitter called Dopamine. Dopamine is a transmitter that is released when we have cocaine, sugar, drugs. Now every time you're on social media and you're scrolling, it is the exact same feeling as gambling because what you're doing is - maybe the next reel is going to be funny, maybe the next joke is going to be funny and you're constantly in that search, search, search; so that is how they've got you hooked. They're using the same thing as what they use to get gamblers hooked. Now our children's brains are not designed to handle so much Dopamine which is why you're also seeing a high amount of depression currently because they have these high spikes of this neurotransmitter. So mentally this is the second thing that is causing a big issue.
- Security is a third one. There are people online that are disguising themselves as friends, confidants and they're exploiting our children and adults as well. There are so many stories that you're reading that are just shocking right now on this. So, security is a big concern when it comes to the mobile phone and,
- The fourth one I think is a deterioration of culture - from two aspects. One is that culture was normally given down from your grandparents, to parents, to you and there's a certain amount of continuity in this. Now you're getting strange people coming and telling you things online that you don't know whether you should believe, not believe, what to do with this new information? I think not just children, adults are also getting influenced by this very much. The way it's packaged, it all seems interesting and, you know, you put a mic in front of someone and now this person seems like an authority.
So, it completely changes the way in which you're interacting with it. So, I think there's a big cultural erosion that is also taking place and especially now, because you have the phone, you don't talk to friends, you don't know how to interact with social people anymore, so these are the four big things that are happening.
On the effects of technology after Covid
I remember, my podcast started seven-eight years ago. This is before Covid, where people weren't listening to podcasts as much. Nobody knew what they were. As Covid started, within two months, we saw a huge spike in viewers and in the number of people creating content. So suddenly people started moving their offline lives online and when you're stuck at home, the phone becomes the window to the world around you. So obviously it became our best friend.
It became our best friend to the point where it would always be with you. Earlier on, you would have your phone but when you're talking to people, you might put it to the side. Now you have it with you, playing content continuously and if you actually go to people's homes, you'll see that everyone's either playing some YouTube video or some Instagram thing or something or the other’s constantly playing on their phones. It's almost like you're too scared to be by yourself, so it's you and my phone constantly interacting with each other and that is something that I've seen taking place.
So having that peace of mind of sitting by yourself (is) gone, even when you're having your Chai or Coffee, you want to watch something. That was at least the time that you thought was peaceful during the day - sit with your chai, look at the birds, that's also gone now. Yes so, I've seen that through Covid. I think the explosion of the phone has been huge.
On the intervention of AI
I remember there was a discussion happening and somebody was asking when do you think humans will become cyborgs. Somebody said what makes you think we are not already? We have this machine with us constantly, it's just that we don't have the data to transfer to our body yet. It will happen very soon but we're all turning into cyborgs with this little machine.
The machine has mastered us. We are now poor little helpless things
On the definition of addiction
What is an addiction? This is a very interesting thing. An addiction, the way that I like to define it, is when the more you use something, the less pleasure that you get from it.
So, the example I gave in my first book is, imagine I give you one mango, you eat the mango and you're like: “wow! fantastic mango.” I give you two mangoes, you eat it… three mangoes, but the pleasure is dropping. You reach a stage when you're no longer getting pleasure but you're getting pain from it but you can't stop - that is what an addiction is.
So you might be on your 15th mango - by this point, you're feeling miserable but you can't stop because you want that mango. That is how you think of addiction
You can also think of addiction in another way, saying that anytime you continue doing something that is harming the loved ones around you - and I think the mobile phone is starting to harm the loved ones around you because relationships are dropping - you're not being able to communicate with people and I think that is where addiction of mobile phones is really coming.
On fun house rules to reduce mobile phone addiction
So, I think what we have to do is to create an action plan for our home and for ourselves because this kind of a device and habit can only change in an environment. So it's important that everyone in the family also watches this video so everyone understands where we're coming from and what we need to do is, we need to understand steps.
So, one of the important steps is to have zero-mobile phone time. So, what I do is I set my phone on airplane mode for at least one hour a day - minimum of 1 hour a day. It can be while I'm working, it can be while I'm just sitting because what that does is that, that constant urge to check if someone's giving me a notification - that goes away and another beautiful thing is that you can go for a walk without your phone.
Many of us take our phone with us to listen to music or (because) “somebody might need me” - that “somebody might need me”very rarely happens - it is an excuse that we use. So, what I suggest is, put your phone on airplane mode - everyone's given that power to switch it off - switch off your phone and you see what happens to you over a week's time.
You will realize that it's not that bad not to have your phone with you. If you want it as a crutch, hold it in your hand, but make sure it's off and hold it in your hand. So, one is this, you can have an hour of airplane mode.
The other habit that I've implemented in my house is, I have only certain areas where the phone is allowed. So,the phone is only allowed on one sofa and one desk in my house. It's not allowed on the dining table because that is where you are most social with your family, so you don't want to drag the phone there and have people not paying attention to you.
And then the most most most important - it's not allowed in the bedroom, otherwise what happens is that you want to go to sleep but then you sleep half an hour later. And you wake up in the morning or in the middle of the night to go use the toilet and you again pick up the phone to see who's messaging me - konno message aayo - and as a result then your brain suddenly starts switching again, so what you do is, you leave your phone outside the bedroom as far as you possibly can and in these little ways what you're doing is you're restricting the power the phone has on you and almost make them like rules, like how we have a rule, you don't bring the chappals (slippers) into the (house), you don't (wear) outside shoes into the house, in the same way here, is a no-mobile-phone zone.
So, in fact, in my house, I actually have a poster saying ‘no mobile phones allowed beyond this point.’ So, stick those, make it a little fun in the house. Very often when we try and as parents make these rule changes at home, we try to be strict instead of trying to be fun and we can be fun as parents.
So, the way to be fun is to try and turn it into a challenge. “Okay, I'm going to put my phone here, you put your phone and let's see who doesn't touch their phone for the longest,” and what's interesting is that kids enjoy this kind of a challenge, especially if there's a fun reward or there's something that you can do afterwards and then you use that - “see you didn't touch it for two hours, did anything happen to you? No. So, now let's make this a little habit”
What you're doing is slowly making this change in yourself and in your child because understand this: your children are nothing but mirrors of you and they are constantly copying everything that you're doing. So, in order to change something in the mirror what has to happen? you have to change also. You can have a concave X mirror, concave mirror but it's actually reflecting what you are, so you have to make that change in you while you're making that change in the child as well. That jugalbundi, that connection has to happen for sure.
Within the Dawoodi Bohra Community, there's been a movement to encourage children under 15 to not use mobile phones.
So now that there is going to be a time vacuum for the kids, what small habits can parents incorporate to fill that time with meaningful and positive connections?
So, you're saying 15 years. I think it's very lenient. I was going to say 16-17. So, I think it's a very important thing that even at 15, don't give a phone to a child because you're stunting this child's creativity.
The child is actually a very creative child in the mind. I remember - you must remember - when you were painting things, you were imagining different worlds when you used to draw things. Now the child is seeing, so he's become a consumer not a creator.
So, I tell the parents that if you don't want your child to have a phone, there are certain steps that you follow - the first step is to make sure where the phone is being consumed. So very often, we give the phone to the child when they are having lunch, when they're having dinner. (So, if you) don't have the time to sit with the child, (you make them) sit with the tablet or with the phone, watch whatever and eat. (That’s the) worst thing you can do. Because this is the best time to create a bond with your child.
One of the things that I'm seeing is that the parent-child bond is deteriorating. Children are looking at their parents for connection, for support and that is not coming through, so what we need to do is we need to give that time. So, one is on the dining table.
The second is what do you do when you are busy working and the child is saying “mama mama mama, papa papa papa.”
And the third is during the evenings when work is over, dinner is done, what do you do at that point of time because that is again when people are on their phones watching TV etc. So, let's look at these three habits:
On the lunch table, no phones are allowed at all whenever you're eating. Zero-phone for adults and for children. What you do instead is you ask questions to the child. Children love answering questions, but (only) when they are asked in the right way. Not “why did you do this” - tell me what were the fun things that you did today. You will get answers. “How was the day?” - you won't get any answer. Ask what was the fun part that they had today, something in a very positive way and you get a conversation going.
Once you create that bond, also then, they will share secrets with you. Another thing that I'm seeing is that they (are) not using the parents as confidants anymore and it's important for the child to use the parent as a confidant. They have lots of questions. So, instead of going to the internet for answers, (they) might as well come and ask their parents for those answers. So, I think that is something that is missing and the dining table is a great place for this learning to take place for children.
The second one is when you are working, what do you do with your child? You show your child that when you're working, you're not on the phone, you're doing something. “Now you sit with me and create something: either write a story, do some painting.”
These two things I think are great for children to start using their imagination again.
Give them a book and ask them to copy out the same drawing that they are seeing. Children like doing this. It is that they've forgotten how to do it, so we have to show that this is how you can create it because - like I said - drawing compared to a phone (stands) no chance - phone is way more exciting but if you don't have the phone as an option altogether, then drawing becomes exciting again.
We are so scared that when the phone disappears, they'll have a freak out moment of “I'm so bored, I'm so bored” - it will happen, prepare yourself because it's like you're taking away an addiction. It will happen for one week. After that one week, the child will automatically find its own balance. Children are smart and they're resilient.
The final thing is what do you do after dinner - there are two options: if you're a family that watches lots of TV, fine, watch TV with the child but don't watch TV with your phone.
What we don't realize is half the time we are watching TV while using our laptop and our phone, so there are three screens that are there.
So, when you're watching TV, only watch TV. When you're on your phone, try and be away from your child as much as possible.
And the last thing is you can go for a walk, you can play with your child – cricket, hockey, table tennis, badminton - all these are fun things that your child is looking for but we are not providing and I think if we realize that this whole fast-paced world that we are trying to create for ourselves is actually not worth it, where actual joy comes from the relationships that we create, the family that we have - I think that's when we realize that maybe this is when we slow down and our children need that.
In our mind we should say that our children are ultimately who we mould with our hands. If you're going to be absent parents, how is a child going to get moulded?
In fact this whole generation, GenZ, is known as the absent-parent generation. It's not the GenZ’s fault that they're the way they are - it is the absent parents that have created people who are addicted to mobile phones, who are depressed because of them. So it's important for us to realize as parents what we're doing and how we can actually empower our children in this way.
On using the mobile phone as a tool
I think we need to all start thinking of our phones like the Mixie in our kitchen. A Mixie is a tool. It’s used for grinding masala, making a paste, etc. Our phone is also a tool. It was meant for phone calls, which we don't use it for anymore. We use it for anything else but phone calls, but it was meant as a tool.
Now if we misuse a tool, we're going to hurt ourselves. It's just the same way if you don't put the lid on the Mixie and you put your hand inside and start it, what's going to happen? You are going to hurt yourself. In the same way, if you don't use the tool correctly, you're going to hurt yourself.
So it's not necessarily villainising a phone. It is understanding that it's a tool and make it a tool. Leave it in its place, don't try and make it your life - right now the phone is your life. Our entire identity is the phone. I have an iPhone this, you have only this, you know, it's become our own way of identity, so don't make your Mixie your identity. Imagine, how funny, making a mixie your identity. So, it's a tool, let it be a tool, don't let it become your personality in that way.
On the way ahead
I think as all addicts you cannot pull the plug in a jhatka (suddenly). You have to give them coping mechanisms before you pull the plug. So, you have to spend time with GenZ showing them that there's another way of life beyond this and more importantly the parents have to change.
The parents caused this. It is not that the genes became like this by themselves. Remember I said right in the beginning of this (podcast) that it is not genetics that caused it. So, it is not a whole generation because of genetics, it is a whole generation because of the habits of the parents that got transferred.
So, let's not just blame GenZ for the way they are, let's first say, okay, I also had a role to play in this - how can I showcase that there is more to life than a phone and then take the phone away and see what happens, that's how I would look at it.
